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9/04/2005

NO MOSHING FOR THE MESSIAH

(THIS POST WAS EDITED AT 5:26PM CST MONDAY SEPTEMBER 5)

I don't get Christian rock shows. Too much talk. Not much rock. Even less fun.

I talk at my solo shows. I confess. When the crowd hunkers in close, squints their eyes slightly as if truly pondering the lyrics, savoring the thoughts buried in melody. I do that. Coffee shops. Small clubs. College theaters. Small churches. Anytime it's just me and my guitar and I've been brought in specifically to speak and sing.

But with a band, guitars spitting distorted angst, drums beaten within an inch of their life - well, a band should play music. Shut your face and rock mine off - I think.

But that's me. And maybe only me - at least among Christian concert goers. Christians like "ministry", which they seem to define as talking. It's as if a singer who doesn't actually say "Jesus" or "God" between songs probably doesn't like either one all that much. So talking about them both often in concert is a good idea. It proves one's entire belief system is what you claim it is and using these words might just be the best proof available that a musician is "saved" at all.

It's not the concert goers fault really. Christian kids are sheltered. They watch MTV as if it's the Discovery Channel. TRL is ogled and studied like a page from National Geographic - another planet's National Geographic. And like a suburban soccer mom dropped into the wilds of uncivilized Africa, these kids wind up driven to Christian-sudo rock shows by their youth ministers only to self-consciously bob slowly all night, unsure of whether they should be enjoying themselves in the first place - and if so, how? "How did the pagan kids on TV do this again?"

Sad really. The only experience many Christian concert-going kids have with concert-going is the likes of me. Yikes. Just once I'd like to take every rural Southern Baptist high schooler on a field trip to a Green Day or Foo Fighters show. Not to taint their shiny souls with the inherently harmful music of the world's whores, but to show them how it's done. How fun is done. "This is fun," I'd say to them. "See that guy over there, the one with his shirt off and his moppy head ricocheting again and again off of thin air? That's a good time," I'd instruct. "Do more of that. Lots more. And stop biting your bottom lip."

And they'd notice there isn't much talking at real rock shows. There doesn't have to be. See, music actually says something. That's what lyrics are for. My parents, for instance, didn't want me listening to "bad music." Why did they think it was "bad"? Because they heard the artist talk? Because the artist articulated his band's hedonistic doctrine thoroughly between ditties on the Grammy's? No. The music said it all. Their lives said even more. It still can. So why can't Christians judge (not eh best word) Christian artists in the same way?

I'm there in your church, at your college, playing songs that are openly about my faith or because of my faith. Do you really need me to talk about God and Jesus between every song before you can feel safe with me? To feel like something of value to your soul has been uttered? To understand what I'm about, who and what I love?

Tonight I played a 40 minute set. Before me was a speaker and after me was another artist who likes to talk a lot. I knew both of these folks would often be mentioning both "Jesus" and "God" in their monologues. So I rocked for 35 minutes and talked for all of 5 while my band tuned and prepared to rock some more. Afterwards I was approached by a college student, a counselor at this event, who had seen me play before. "It was great tonight, "she said. "But I liked you better the last time I saw you. You just ministered more then. You just played tonight."

So I asked her if she'd like to see Green Day with me.

22 Comments:

Blogger Paula said...

yup. and when they talk to much on christian radio...my friends laugh at me when they're in my car on saturday nights...when a certain DJ starts giving too much info on air about a certain song, cd, or just starts talking about anything random, I start screaming at the radio...I don't get road rage, just fresh fm rage :)

The foo fighters are playing here in december...I wanna go!!! but both shows are sold out :(

9/05/2005  
Anonymous matt said...

that's so true. there's often the feeling that we, as Christians, need to distinguish ourselves from "the world." so we do everything like them, but we add in the little disclaimers like the talking about "Jesus" and "God."

it's awesome to see that you don't feel the need to do that. you believe that your lyrics speak loud enough on their own, and in my opinion...they do that perfectly.

keep up the rock'in :)

9/05/2005  
Blogger Toby said...

Two of the best Christian concerts I ever attended had mosh pits. I saw One Bad Pig at a middle school in Austin, and I saw Vengence Rising at the Liberty Lunch in Austin.

The Libert Lunch show was WOW! Mostly music, but a good explanation of the gospel at the end and an incredible response. An altar call was given, and to make it clear, the Liberty Lunch was a heavy metal bar in downtown Austin. The altar call was given while the patrons were buying the beer. The guys from the band just stayed around and talked to people for a while after the show. It's always cool to see the musicians just being people. The best part of the show for me though was whenI walked to close to the mosh pit. I had battled my way up to a speaker for some good head banging, but nature called and as I walked to the restroom, I got plowed over by Paul Q-Pek, guitarist for one bad pig, my favorite band at the time. I had a great night.

9/05/2005  
Blogger Nancy Tyler said...

“Are Christians who go to my concerts that stupid or just that bad at listening?”

Hmm. Well, I’m still deciding which I am, Shaun. Maybe you’ll let me know after you’ve read my comments here.

What this blog entry communicates to me is: "those poor sheltered Christians don’t understand me. I AM A ROCK STAR.” And I think what it could fuel among those who are reading this blog entry and who do “get” the ministry intent in your music, is an elitist attitude toward others who don’t.

The thing about us humans is, not everybody can comprehend complexity or depth in song lyrics if they're exposed to them for the first time at a high-decibel, rocks-your-face-off concert. As the artist, you know what those lyrics are. And your message board devotees and some others know what they are. Count on your fingers and tell me how many people that makes out of a crowd of 100 or 600 or 2,000? If the rest of your audience can’t keep up with the words, it’s mostly entertainment that you’re giving them. Nothing wrong with that. Everybody loves to be entertained.

As you’ve observed, Christians don’t always perceive ministry when it is wrapped in a really entertaining package, though. And that’s especially true if you’re playing in a church or on a Christian ticket. Expectations are attached to locations. Open for Green Day or the Foo Fighters, play on a secular ticket, play in a secular venue and that audience won’t want to hear you talk from the stage, and they won’t care much about your lyrics either. Just make the music sound good.

You can be that kind of artist if you want. But if you choose to continue delivering the kind of sharp writing and thinking that draws people like me to your work, and if you’re already known through your solo shows and online writings as someone who has a lot of valuable things to say, consider that people are accustomed to, and might want to hear more from you than an entertaining night of songs with lyrics that they may or may not be able to catch. Though it may have come across as offensive to you, what that fan said to you after the show was a compliment in disguise. She valued your words and thoughts so much that she wanted to hear more of them.

I’ve noticed over the years that sometimes your thinking can take on an “either-or” quality. In this case, you seem to think that either you have to talk between EVERY song or that you shouldn’t really have to talk at all because the music should speak for itself. But I wonder if there might be something in between those extremes. Talking a little more, but not between every song? Or explaining that for this show, you’re going to talk less and you then get them revved up to let go and enjoy the concert experience? This way, you have answered their expectations, and you've set them free to enjoy themselves. Be gentle, sometimes we Christians need a little help and a little permission to do that. :)

Go ahead and be frustrated that many kids and adults enmeshed in the Christian subculture can't easily let go and have fun. I agree with your frustration; I was one of those kids and I miss the crazy screaming years I didn’t experience as a teenager. But ranting about how obtuse and sheltered the Christians are who go to your concerts doesn’t seem like the most loving or effective ministry attitude to me.

n

9/05/2005  
Blogger GrovesFan said...

I've never even heard of the "Foo Fighters" or "Green Day" either for that matter and MTV is blocked at my house. Sheltered, yes, by choice. I like when you talk during your shows Shaun. It gives the audience a deeper look inside you and also provides for some awesome humor! However, I'll say that I'm looking forward to actually meeting you in person when you come to Grand Forks and getting to know you better. Attending the show will be that much more awesome when I can sit back, listen, and say, "yeah, I get it. We talked about that earlier."

beth

9/05/2005  
Blogger stephen said...

i think talking has it's proper place. ive had the opportunity to see artists like kendall payne and sarah masen play and they've both seemed to be deliberate in their explanation of songs. not necessarily of Jesus, but of their songs. now keep in mind, that they were playing smaller venues and weren't maxing out the speakers. but i think that's cool. i think it's also cool to talk about Jesus.

but, i don't go to a show to hear talk. i go to hear the rock. or the bluegrass. but that's why i go to a show. perhaps some folks go for different reasons. and i think you're always going to have that problem. unless you start advertising "silent" shows and "talkie" shows. but you can't do that.

i also share paula's frustration as i have the same experiences with my local ccm station. yes, i understand what that casting crowns song is saying. no, i don't need any clarification.

my .02.

9/05/2005  
Blogger Shaun Groves said...

I've received more "Amen"s than "Oh my"s over this post. I've struggled for the last two hours since returning home with whether to delete it or not. I've decided not. But I have deleted one line. The only that I stayed up last night regretting having written. But, with my computer uncharged and an early departure waiting for me, I opted to leave it - take my chances. Wish I hadn't. It felt wrong when I wrote, written from emotion at the end of a frustrating night and not reflective of how I really think most of the time - or much time at all.

The "stupid" line Nancy quotes in her friendly spanking of me here in the comments section has been removed. I was wrong. Sorry. The rest of my post, while still emotional, is honestly how I think right now even 24 hours after the show. I'll post more when I have time and answer some of Nancy's valid concerns. I love having friends (and messageboard moderators) who are honest with me. It's only fair since I'm honest with you all.

Thank for Shlogging.

SG

9/05/2005  
Blogger Nancy Tyler said...

Shaun, I'm not surprised you got more amens to that post. You tend to draw people who have a contempt for the Christian subculture and the Christian music industry and who tend to be a little more educated and sophisticated than the average person in the pew or concert seat.

The friendly spanking would have been replaced by a solid smack on the head if you'd erased that whole post. It needs to stay so we can all think together, and so people can see that their rock idols can show they're human and say they were wrong.

Thanks for investing so much time in thinking this through.

n

9/05/2005  
Blogger Shaun Groves said...

I'll take Nancy's comments in pieces...

#1 "What this blog entry communicates to me is: "those poor sheltered Christians don’t understand me. I AM A ROCK STAR.” And I think what it could fuel among those who are reading this blog entry and who do “get” the ministry intent in your music, is an elitist attitude toward others who don’t."

Alright, I deserve that. I see how this post could come across as the whining of a rock star - not what you accused me off exactly, but definitely in the same spirit. Sure. And it is to some degree the whining of a, um, musician/pastor.

Elitist? Of course I am. Elitism: the belief that some people or things are inherently superior to others and deserve preeminence. Yep. I believe that. I don't believe I'M superior but "some things" are. I think thinking about what our senses are taking in is superior than not thinking about what our senses are taking in: movies, lyrics, melodies, political rhetoric, sermons, odor from a house next door. Yes, thinking, processing, analyzing, fondling experience again and again with every neuron of our brains and every molecule of emotion we have within us is far superior to passive data collection and spectator living. Absolutely. I'm an elitist.

But I don't think that's what Nancy meant. I think she means I come across in this post, to someone who doesn't know me as she does, like I think I'm better or smarter or more spiritual than someone else. I DON'T think I'm better in any way than anyone else on the whole. From the sky's perspective every building, no matter how impressive from the ground, is an ant. But I DO think that on rare occasions through-out our lives we are all somewhat expert on at least one tiny little thing. My thing is that little but of commerce and culture where Southern American Evangelical Christianity crossbreeds with Pop Music and gives birth to this mongrel called Contemporary Christian Music. I have 31 years of subculture experience, 19 years of music making, a degree in Music Composition with an emphasis on music of world cultures from a Baptist University...in the South, a stack of CCM CDs from the last twenty years, Jesus t-shirts from high school no shredded and used to wax the car, countless hours talking to and playing for Christians from the Southern United States, hours of conversations with other artists both in mainstream and Christian music circles and way too many concert tickets in my collection. I KNOW ABOUT THIS. I'm not making stuff up.

If the problem is me saying I know something not everyone else does then that bugs me. This is something that bugs me about post-modernism in general: The belief that we can never admit we think we know something pretty stinking well or almost for certain Emergent pastors have a habit, for instance, of riddling their preaching with stories of their own failure to practice what they're preaching in an attempt to endear themselves to their audience - and I get that. I'm endeared. But it's also OK for us to say as Paul did "I get this. And I'm telling you about it because I don't think some of you do. And it's important to me that you do. This is good stuff to get." And that's what I'm saying in this post. I get THIS - not everything - but THIS.

It's OK for Nancy to question what I think I know - to teach me more about it or prove me wrong completely or tell me it doesn't even matter and isn't worth discussing. I want that. I'll grow from that. But I will not halfway say things in the mean time I'm really sure of because of my own expertise and experience in this one little thing. Christian youth at rock shows do not hear God's voice unless His name is invoked unaccompanied by music. And that's a shame. Because that could mean that they're not hearing Him yelling from everything else around them in life. That bothers me. And it bothers me that Christian artists, in whatever market, have no choice but to perform in only one way.

I have only, for the record, talked less than a show total of ten minutes at ONLY FIVE SHOWS in the last five years - that I can think of. I'm almost always a talker, just because it seems to fit the gig. But I want the freedom to not talk if I, and my team and the promoter, think it fits a gig. Right now that freedom does not exist, especially at Christian youth gigs, because not talking is perceived as non-Christian by vocal attendees - no matter how well it fits the line-up and purpose of the night.

9/05/2005  
Blogger Drew said...

I'm not going to amen or denouce the post. it's got good and bad. honestly, i don't mind the talking. it is usually encouraging, especially from you Shaun, because you are a gifted communicator. I do get frustrated though when people talk only for the sake of talking, and don't have anything to say. I've been to a couple of shows where the artist just kept rambling about some spiritual truth, but they weren't really saying anything.

I will say that my first rock concert (and one of the best I might add) was when I saw the Foo Fighters in middle school (I think 8th grade). Still not sure how I talked my mom into letting me go, but I'm glad I did. Awesome show. My buddy that I went with lost a shoe...

9/05/2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sometimes i think that we dont get what REALLY bothers you about christian music and the industry. we read and join with you in your frustrations about the radio stations, the program directors, the teens who dont know how to rock, the soccer moms ruling radio play... These things, although we love hearing every rare morsel of this information, do not seem to be the central thing bugging you and others duking it out with the labels and stations and in this case, the crowd. (pardon the phsycho analysis.) i may be totally reading too much into this.

Honestly, the "Christian Music Industry" (as if it has been baptized or something) is being criticized from many people these days, from you to Jars of Clay, to...everyone. It doesn't seem to just be the radio play or lack there of... is it something a little deeper. I am not saying that the criticism is bad or unmerrited, but no one feels like they can say it all or put their finger on what is really bothering them. even on this blog, you try and speak your mind about things and you've got people from radio stations, who play your songs, and your boss at Rocketown breathin down your neck. I am pretty stunned at times, considering the circumstances that you got the you-know-whats to say what you say sometimes. Believe me it IS appreciated.

it seems at the core of CCM you have you musicians. some a little brighter than others, some with more talent and originality. but that really doesnt seem to matter because its all about the cash these days. Somewhere along the way, artists were allowed less and less to be the artist they were made to be, and CCM became a genre and that genre became the mold, and if you dont fit that mold then you aint gettin signed, and if you aint gettin signed then you aint getting played, if you aint getting played then you and your family dont eat and then your stocking t-shirts at old navy, or worse for some, get a church job. I guess every genre has parameters but their is a whole wolrd outside of this subculture that is letting their musicians be more original. CCM seems to say to some, "be original, but not too original. Now that you have a fan base off of your orinial sound lets see if we can expand that a bit more, so be LESS original. Now, you have a parameter set up for you that says that you gotta say these words and not these words in your songs, be positive not negative, your good at talking so talk at concerts, stick to that...

what happened to christian music? why all the angst? (besides of course the ever-so-informative stuff that you have been posting lately.) I doesn't seem like there was all of this hub-bub in the beginning. It seems like Rich could be Rich, Amy could be Amy and Smitty could be Smitty. I heard a story about Rich that when a label rep told him that he had to loose some weight, cut his hair and sing more poppy stuff, he told him where to stick it and stormed out of the room. Who could get away with that today?

i wish that someone someday would write a book about the CCM world. The lead singer of Jars of Clay said after they got snubbed by the Dove awards that we have created a Monster with this industry, although at times it tries to be a good monster, it is still a monster. I wouldn't want a book just to sling mud but maybe to expose some things that need to be exposed and then maybe some things would change. Wishful thinking i guess.



sorry if some of this was a bit non sequitur.

thanks

9/06/2005  
Blogger Dave Haupert said...

I am one of those people who like the talking, most of the time. I don't people should sing unless they have something to sing about, and the same is true for speaking. But when a song is motivated and inspired by events in your life, I think the background story is most interesting and helps me to appreciate the song more. I like VH1 StoryTellers for that reason. But do I think that all artists/bands are suited for StoryTellers? Most definitely not- only those that can add to the appreciation of the song.

Shaun, you are experienced enough by now to know you'll never please everybody at a show, yet by the same token, you're not giving a concert to please yourself. You don't need an audience to play for yourself!

You're there to serve the listeners, and give them what it is that will help them enjoy the show, BUT in a way that doesn't compromise who you are.

That being said, I agree with Nancy that if you start by explaining why you're going to be talking less, it will likely eliminate the complaints and disappointment.

9/06/2005  
Blogger Shaun Groves said...

I appreciate your questions and applause "Anonymous" but I'm not sure I've communicated clearly enough now after reading your words and Nancy's. Honestly, I think I've really screwed up this time. This post was spontaneous, honest, reckless and too poorly constructed to clarify how I think and feel right now. Instead it opened wounds I didn't want to open and painted me in a distorted way that isn't true to my real thoughts and convictions 99% of the time.

Let me try to explain shortly. I'll try. I have no beef with the music industry. It's not inherently evil. You're probably thinking -yea right. No, seriously. An industry isn't evil. People, driven by a misguided theology, perpetrate evils. And that happens in every line of work. I have promised a post some day on what really bugs me about radio. It's not what they play or who they play it for. It really isn't. Just as my beef with the crowd at this show, or some folks in the crowd, isn't about whether they had fun or liked me or not - I think they did, just in an unusual way. My beef with labels and artists isn't what they do either. My beef with myself and everyone else in this business is our tendency to do things for the wrong "why"s. Why matters to me more than what. See past the whats in my posts and see the whys.

What is the why that bugs me? In short, we limit God and our conversation about him. This is profanity by biblical definition. To make God smaller than He is on purpose. We do this for personal gain: financial prosperity, approval, comfort, pleasure etc. We profane. I PROFANE. That's what bugs me. That's the deeper issue you asked about.

I regret most having spent far too many posts on SHLOG.COM ranting about or poking fun at whats I don't like or don't understand instead of explaining better the why that would help us us do better whats. I'll post about profanity soon then.

In the meantime please remember the good things that have been said here about artists that are making great music and changing lives like mine, about organizations, churches and programs doing a great job of enabling us all to better love God and man, about the small joys of children and family and friends and every day life lived joyfully. There is a lot more good here on SHLOG.COM over time than there is ranting I think. This kind of ranting is the norm for me - not publicly. I struggling with how to be honest about the questions I have about my own purpose and this industry's without being disobedient and mean. I don't think I can do that. So I'll be saying less, if anything at all, about the business I'm in. I should probably limit conversation about my own quest for answers, often driven by frustrations and personal experiences, to friends and family from now on.

SG

9/06/2005  
Blogger Mustard Packet Pelter said...

My family and I discussed this Shlog in the car yesterday on our way to go and have my birthday lunch.

We mainly spoke about how lots of Christian singers feel the need to explain their songs to the crowd while many if not all secular artists don't do any explaining at all. We talked about how if we went to a concert we wanted to hear music if we went to a conference we would want to hear a speaker. There has to be a happy medium between how much you talk on stage and how much you play. If you've only got 40 minutes to play and have a ton of songs you wanna play then try your hardest to get out what you need to get out in 5 minutes or less and play for the other 35 min which Shaun is what you did.
Shaun, I love it when you talk. For some reason I just get glued into whatever it is your saying and am tuned out to everything else. But when you have only a limited time to play then I say PLAY!! PLAY!! PLAY!! Just don't cover up the lyrics with music, because all artists do this sometime. They play so much that the music covers up the song and then you're left goin "Do wha? What'd he say?" Sure we're having a great time rocking our face off but we're not really sure what we're rocking our face off about how much since does that make?
I did disagree with this part of the shlog..."Just once I'd like to take every rural Southern Baptist high schooler on a field trip to a Green Day or Foo Fighters show. Not to taint their shiny souls with the inherently harmful music of the world's whores, but to show them how it's done. How fun is done. "This is fun," I'd say to them." Shaun, if you had done something like that to me in High school I would have never trusted you or your definition of "fun" ever again. What maybe fun to some people maybe absolutly revolting to others. Sure you may think that going to a Green Day or Foo Fighters show would be fun but if it were me you'd have to drag me kicking and screaming out from under my bed, tie me up, gag me, throw me in the trunk of the car, and carry me into the show that way to make me stay. I know you'll probably throw plenty of questions at me on this and I'm prepared to deal with that. I'm just saying what's fun to you may not be fun to me. *shrug*

9/06/2005  
Blogger Shaun Groves said...

Mustard wielder, that part of the post was just unclear. I'm for sheltering. I'm for sheltering my kids from something that is harmful to them. And I think a foo fighters or green day show is harmful for kids. So I wouldn't call the show "good" or "fun", but I'd call what the people at that show are doing "fun." Dancing, singing, celebrating, moshing - well, that's fun. The people at the shows are having a good time. It's the good time having I'd like us to learn from. The lyrical content and beliefs of those artists are not worth admiring or emulating. Agreed. But no one can deny that some serious abandonment and partying is going on. And we Christians have plenty to party about.

I don't disagree with you at all. Just clarifying.

SG

9/06/2005  
Blogger Whiteboy said...

I like to consider myself a pretty avid concert-goer (both Christian and not - my first was when my parents took me to see Jimmy Buffett in the 8th grade)...to the point that it's probably the biggest drain on my pocketbook. I've seen you do both types of shows Shaun - "rock my face off" and talk talk talk. I love both, and not one more than the other...simply depends on my mood. I think that true for a lot of people. There are times when we want to get out there and have a good time, and there are times we want someone to get in our face. Neither one is inherently better than the other.

For example, as I've said, I've seen you do both types of shows. In both instances, I had people with me looking for the opposite of the show you did. When you did the more rocking show, I remember someone saying that it didn't feel all that challenging, or wasn't anything they couldn't get from a secular show. At the solo "talking" gig, one of my friends looked at me and said "Will he just shut up and play his music?"

You're not going to make everybody happy. You're going to have those that think if you don't say "God" or "Jesus" every other word that you're some sort of heathen. You're going to have those that roll their eyes when you get preachy.

Get over it (and I mean that in the most loving way possible).

No artist is going to be everything to everyone. If that were possible, then we'd only need one Christian singer in this world. Different individuals need different things, and different crowds need different things. From the sound of it, you're right, that crowd needed to be soft-rocked out. I'm sure you've encountered other crowds that don't want to hear what you have to say, but desperately need it. And this doesn't just go for you, but it really goes for a lot of artists (although, not knowing many, this is just an armchair quarterback's guess). Why shouldn't there be a discernment, an open prayer to God that you're able to do something about what that crowd needs?

Sounds like you nailed it a while ago - it all comes down to "what should I tell them tonight?"



One other small aside - I'm not a huge fan of moshing in general. Other people's thing, no doubt, but never really been mine. It doesn't bother me too much at a Christian show - provided it's a Christian pit, and there's plenty of fair warning. The former is why I refuse to put a penny of mine ever again towards Relient K (I was at a show of theirs where 4 people we're taken to the hospital, and the lead singer pretty much blew it off). The latter is why I was confused that MercyMe was on the same bill as Kutless, and why I got unfortunately surprised when I had 25 of the teenagers in my youth group in the front row who wanted absolutley nothing to do with the huge pit forming behind us. Which then begs the question I shall end with - is there such thing as a "Christian pit"?

9/06/2005  
Blogger Lane said...

Personally, Shaun, I appreciate you being harsh sometimes. It helps break down the walls of the appropriate so that conversation can start where it otherwise might not.

My only beef with too much talking during any show where music is being played, is that in my opinion, it takes away from some of the mystery of the music. Some of my favorite music is that which I can weave myself and my own narrative into. Egotistical? Sure, but it's fun! Wiith Christian music, there is a narrative already established (that of Christ), but I don't think that should exclude us the ability to take part in the mystery that the artist brings to us, whether it is through moshing and yelling or introspection. I definitly think music should be a way of expression for the listener and the artist, and that we shouldn't take either experience away.

Just some thoughts.

9/06/2005  
Blogger Mustard Packet Pelter said...

Moshing fun? Are you kidding me? I've been in a mosh pit at a Relient K concert before and it was one of the most terrifying moments in my life! Sure I don't mind the chest bumping and the occasional landing on the toes it's the constant pushing of the crowd. In that case I was more concerned with the girls who were standing in front of me because they were terrified and I was a barrier between the crazy jumping Christian moshers and the not so crazy Christian moshers. I don't mind the throwing of toilet paper or beach balls or jumping or screaming or anything like that but the mosh pits are kind of a scary place if you just want to be close to the band but not a moshing participater. But yeah Shaun thanks for clarifying on my post earlier. One last question promise...Are you saying that all around Christianity is constipated in the fun department?

9/06/2005  
Blogger Shaun Groves said...

No.

9/06/2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the response. As i re-read my entry i once again noticed a bit of it came off wrong. (and i forgot to sign it!!) It sounds a bit like i or we stand around waiting for the juicy gossip in the ccm world to hit SHLOG.COM licking our chops.

This is not true, what we want and what you give us is answers. Why is this song not played and others are...ect. These things are good to know. While the last blog seemed to come off raw, thats okay. Aren't we allowed to be raw from time to time. If you decide to limit your rantings to friends and family, that is definitely your desicion, but i hope that you dont mis-construe my comments as "one who has focused on the negatives" and this causes you to limit ideas and emotions to positive and upbeat.

I have just been hearing as i am working on this new cd project from people in many different bands some well-known and some not, of this underlying angst. my question to you was, what and where is that angst really coming from since no one really seems to be able to explain where they think it comes from.

"What is the why that bugs me? In short, we limit God and our conversation about him. This is profanity by biblical definition. To make God smaller than He is on purpose. We do this for personal gain: financial prosperity, approval, comfort, pleasure etc. We profane. I PROFANE. That's what bugs me."

this is great stuff man, keep on keepin on.


Seth

9/06/2005  
Blogger Kathryn said...

i don't even know what to say. there are just so many words here and i don't think that i can add anything different. I just think that this is all overanalysis.

9/06/2005  
Anonymous bistro said...

If I come with my own expectations or ideas about how God is going to minister to me, I can miss out on a hundred other ways he is going to minister to me. Talking, singing, silence, or having fun are all ways to learn, or hear from, God. Maybe God is going to minister to me by my letting go and just enjoying a rock show. What a crazy idea.

Don't water down the shlog. You may take heat for some things, but how will people grow if they aren't challenged. I know I need it. Not to mention that beating drums within an inch of their lives is needed every now and then.

9/06/2005  

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